It occurred to me today that although Milo has a great retrieve it is something I have taught him and it was never taught at puppy class. Do most classes teach a retrieve?

I only ask because I took Milo to the park this morning to play with his Kong Wubba, deliberately avoiding the gang of young pups in the middle of the park. One hiked all the way over, stole his toy, went off to play tug with it and another pup and the two owners just couldn't get it back. For ten minutes the dogs just danced around the owners. They admitted they didn't have a clue how to teach them to give things back. We left it that they would drop the toy back home to me but at the very last minute one of the dogs dropped it and a quick retrieval by me sorted it.

I tried to explain that it needs to be taught backwards - a process called backchaining. I think next time I go to the park I'll give them some video links. I do think it is a really important behaviour to teach: returning a ball, giving back something they have stolen, fetching all sorts of items, picking things off the floor that have been dropped. It has so many applications. And of course, much easier, trained with a clicker

Sue

oohhh please explain - in detail.

Lara really doesn't get retrieve. i know this is due to our commands. she will fetch, picks things up and then drops it. very occasionally she brings it all the way back, but never when we really want her to - eg in the lake

I'm intrigued what backchaining is too!

It's a real pet peeve of mine when dogs play "fetch" and then have more fun keeping the toy than returning it so I've always been pretty strict with Barney. He learnt retrieve very early as I was so elated when he brought something back and gave it to me I think he wanted to do it again and again!! He waxes and wanes with how good he is at it though. It doesn't help that he loves the game "tug" - so I'm trying to separate them.

I think it's usualy for most classes teach a retrieve. Beamish wasn't a natural retriever, but I used a toy that opens for a treat to be put in it. Beamish could only get the treat if he brought it to me to open and he soon worked that out. It didn't take long before I could use a normal toy for him to fetch.

i have to admit the puppy classes we went to didnt teach retrieve either (i am in the process of looking for a different class but thats another story). i have read about clicker training, i think this could be the way forward with Riley. is it better to find a class that teaches it, or is it something you can learn from dvd?

I don't know if I was just lucky with Max (now 12 weeks) but he retrieves everything to my hand - even when he doesn't really want to! I think it might be because when I said 'fetch' I also held one hand out, palm up. I noticed I held eye contact with him too. All this sort of happened naturally. Or maybe this is just his particular skill! He also 'fetches' everything into one pile of his own accord, usually close to where I happen to be - keeps things tidy!! Strange, but both my previous dogs also tidied up their toys into one pile (golden retriever, then shitzu maltese).

It's so weird but Barney and the cat tidy up all their toys too!! If losing them under the sofa counts as tidying....

(A bit like when I tidy everything by putting it all under the stairs

oh Sue it would be great if you could put some instructions up ! or do you have a 'milo link' to look at.
ive tried teaching Luna to retrieve things to me but she really doesnt get it. i started with a ball and gave her a treat when bringing back the ball but thats as far as we got - bless her i think she is 'challenged' in the retrieval department

I really don't know about backchaining but I followed the method set out in the Gwen Bailey book which involves lots of praise as they "fetch it" and praise as they "bring it" near you. After Barney had gotten the hang of bring it I stopped praising him until he was in my "space" (kneeling down, arms open - the circle that my arms created) as he'd started to run around me quite happily dancing around with the toy. He didn't want to give me the toy so at first he used to stand just outside the "zone" looking - as soon as he came in "GOOD B.. oh." That was Barney walking out from the zone, so I'd stop, wait with my arms open and eventually he'd come back in "GOOD BOY!" and get a really big cuddle - and a big "GOOD BOY!!" and as the book says don't touch the dog's head or toy. You want them to enjoy the retrieve so they don't learn "If I go near her she'll take the toy away from me"

After playing with him for a bit I would take the toy, make him sit, and throw it again... He loved getting the praise and cuddles so he was soon retrieving.

He doesn't bring it "straight" to me yet - he does that dog thing of zooming past me for a second and turning to come to me, but the past few days he's getting really good at dropping the toy for me and looking at me to throw it again. I will say Barney is praise motivated rather than treat motivated which possibly helped him pick it up

I don't think most puppy classes do But I've never been so don't really know!

I taught Tilly the retrieve myself (formal and informal) and of course she picks things up for me. I have to say it does help with many things! I know if she pinches someone else's toy in the park 9/10 times she'll give it back!!

This is one of the best videos I've seen - uses a clicker but she describes each step quite clearly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oFO9Z0o ... ure=relmfu

There is also a part 2 to watch

Slightly different tack but using the same backchaining principles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ccw1uwvb ... re=related

You Tube is a mine of really good training videos - both of these subscribers are to be recommended as is Kikopup. They all duplicate the various things to train but its fun to see the nuances of training (they are all positive trainers by the way)

If anyone wants to delve a bit further into backchaining - it is used to teach so many things - eg with Milo - used to teach his painting trick, placing hoops on pole, the boo trick - you could take a look at this article which also mentions teaching a backchained retrieve.
http://www.clickertraining.com/node/111

Although I do clicker train you can adapt these principles by just using a marker word, such as 'yes', 'good' or whatever, as long as you condition your dog to know that as soon as you say that word it is an indicator that he had done exactly the right thing and a reward will be due immediately. Do that by just repeating the word and giving a treat about twenty times in succession - the dog should look at you in anticipation as he realises the word means reward is coming. We do the same when condition a dog to the click of a clicker. If I don't have a clicker with me or just not enough hands when training a trick I just say 'yes'.

Right - I'll be quiet now:)


Sue

FANTASTIC SUE
it really does make sense doing it that way. im going to start with it tonight