Going out of my mind with 13 week puppy

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mr_cc
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Joined: 23 Jan 2013, 14:13

Going out of my mind with 13 week puppy

Post by mr_cc » 23 Jan 2013, 14:37

Hi All,

We picked up our puppy a week and a half ago, and are having some issues which we are finding very hard to deal with (mentally!) and may result in us giving up the pup. Some things are going well, such as toilet training, however :

1. She whines, cries and barks as if someone is trying to kill her when we leave her in the crate. We have tried playing games with the crate, sitting next to the crate while she settles - all of this fine, she is happy to be in there with company, but as soon as we leave the room, the howling begins. This goes on for 1/2 hour or so, and we get the same again if she wakes up during the night. - This isnt our biggest problem but would be nice to solve.

2. Related to 1 - we both work full time, so pup will have to be confined ( to a fenced off area of our kitchen + open crate ) for the daytime, although we do have someone to come and give her a 1/2 hour toilet break, and a good run around the garden. She again cries in the most heartbreaking way as soon as we leave the room, she keeps this up for about 1/2 hour again.

3. Her excitedness around our 1 year old daughter is really scaring the baby. She isnt agressive or nipping, but is jumping up and licking her face, chasing her through the house, I know its only playfulness, but the main reason we got the pup was to be a companion for our daughter, if they cant get on, the baby will win. I really need to train this out of her, but dont know where to start.

Also, how much should i be walking the pup? I had been taking her for a 15 minute (1 mile) early morning walk and a 20 - 30 minute walk in the evening, I think I completely exhausted her as she started to sit down and refused to walk. After giving her a few days rest, only doing 5 mins max twice per day, she seems happier to walk, but I want to give her the correct amount of exercise.

If anyone has any suggestions I would be very grateful, particularly about jumping up on the baby, it is making the baby a virtual prisoner in the house at the moment, and I cant get the dog to do obey me in any way whilst she is so excited (she will sit and lie down if calm)

Thanks,

Pete

casa42
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Re: Going out of my mind with 13 week puppy

Post by casa42 » 23 Jan 2013, 15:00

The first thing I would recommend is finding some puppy classes with a good dog trainer. I found mine by asking at my local RSPCA centre but asking other dog owners is good too. If your puppy was with her siblings and mother until ten days ago she is going to find seperation difficult, I left mine for five minutes at a time and built up slowly. Obviously if you both work full time this is not going to be possible. Do you feed her in her crate? A Kong may help to keep her occupied. I have to admit that Coco no longer sleeps in her crate but in her bed in our room, she never settled in her crate very well. The jumping up at the baby and chasing is her way of playing but obviously not acceptable I bought several books on dog training despite having had dogs all my life. Coco does still jump up but has learnt to not put her feet on my little ones. If she jumps up at you turn your back and ignore her. In a way it's a bit like kids if possible ignore negative behaviour and praise the good. Does she understand leave yet? This was one of the first commands I taught. A puppy doesn't need much exercise as it can be hard on their joints and cause problems when they are older. Good luck
Cate and Coco

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luggage16
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Re: Going out of my mind with 13 week puppy

Post by luggage16 » 23 Jan 2013, 15:02

Walking they say never walk them for more than their age in months x 5 mins. So 3 month old would be 15 mins walking on a hard surface max (its important not to over wak them as they can be prone to joint issues)

With the crying I'm not sure what to suggest - we sit with luna (8 week old pup we got at the weekend) till she settles and then she is fine, even if she wakes. We have managed to leave her for an hour twice already with no issue. If we are in the house though and pop her in the crate awake she will whine and whimper! We are trying to pop her in for a bit each day whilst sorting the kids so she gets used to it.

Jumping up at your daughter is probably her wanting to play. We are finding that if Luna gets a bit over excited then focussing her on training really helps. She has learnt 'ssit' and 'fetch' already and once we do a small bit of training she will usually take herself off for a nice long nap!

If she jumps at us we tell her sit and then make a fuss and so far it seems to be working

Would be a shame to give up your puppy over the isssues you say. When do you need her to be settled by with regards to work?
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Doodle Dee
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Re: Going out of my mind with 13 week puppy

Post by Doodle Dee » 23 Jan 2013, 15:12

i am so sorry you are having problems. I think you need to remember she is a baby just like your little one. I have no suggestions other than whatever others had suggested. When my grandchildren came although older - she would still jump on them so I had an indoor lead for her that I would use and not give her enough rope to jump up if you see what I mean. I also have a water spray I used to spray over her - good luck and you will see from the posts all pups are different but they do change xx
Lulu & Dx

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Roxwell
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Re: Going out of my mind with 13 week puppy

Post by Roxwell » 23 Jan 2013, 15:15

In my view getting a puppy has not been very well thought through. What sort of life is it for her to be shut up in a crate all day? She is a puppy and will jump up, chase, claw, nip etc etc. She is craving attention as she is just a baby. :(

IMHO I think you should consider contacting the breeder with a view to giving her back to the breeder for rehoming.

Sorry to be so blunt but having a puppy has obviously been more difficult than you expected it would be. There is no shame in accepting it was not the best of choices and rehoming may be the best solution all round.

As for length of walks - the previous advice is good.

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Bid
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Re: Going out of my mind with 13 week puppy

Post by Bid » 23 Jan 2013, 15:19

Congratulations on your new puppy! What is she called? Here are my suggestions - I expect there will be loads more too.
mr_cc wrote: 1. She whines, cries and barks as if someone is trying to kill her when we leave her in the crate. We have tried playing games with the crate, sitting next to the crate while she settles - all of this fine, she is happy to be in there with company, but as soon as we leave the room, the howling begins. This goes on for 1/2 hour or so, and we get the same again if she wakes up during the night. - This isnt our biggest problem but would be nice to solve. Pete
Does the crate have to be closed? I don't crate mine so am no expert, But I would have thought that a puppy is more likely to accept a crate if she knows she can get out.I've used puppy pens for my pups which gives them room for a bed, a playing area and a toilet area, which they need if left for any length of time.
mr_cc wrote:2. Related to 1 - we both work full time, so pup will have to be confined ( to a fenced off area of our kitchen + open crate ) for the daytime, although we do have someone to come and give her a 1/2 hour toilet break, and a good run around the garden. She again cries in the most heartbreaking way as soon as we leave the room, she keeps this up for about 1/2 hour again.Pete
Have you built up to leaving her - starting with just leaving the room and going straight back in, then increasing it to 5 minutes and so on. Take it in tiny steps, and don't make a fuss of her either when you leave or when you come back in - do something first, then go at speak to her, as if leaving and returning aren't a big deal. I think you need to sort out more than a half hour visit for her if you are both going to be out all day. Puppy's (and dogs) need company, training and attention, and lots to occuly them, otherwise they will find their own ways of keeping entertained! Lots of dog walkers will do puppy visits.
mr_cc wrote:3. Her excitedness around our 1 year old daughter is really scaring the baby. She isnt agressive or nipping, but is jumping up and licking her face, chasing her through the house, I know its only playfulness, but the main reason we got the pup was to be a companion for our daughter, if they cant get on, the baby will win. I really need to train this out of her, but dont know where to start.Pete
Adult doodles get on with older children as a rule, but 13 weeks and 1 year old are both very young to know about each other. The puppy won't know that your daughter isn't just a small person, and your daughter won't know how to behave around a puppy. I'm sure you are supervising all interaction, so as soon as the puppy gets excited, take her away somewhere she can calm down. I'm sure people who deal with puppies and children will have more suggestions.
mr_cc wrote:Also, how much should i be walking the pup? I had been taking her for a 15 minute (1 mile) early morning walk and a 20 - 30 minute walk in the evening, I think I completely exhausted her as she started to sit down and refused to walk. After giving her a few days rest, only doing 5 mins max twice per day, she seems happier to walk, but I want to give her the correct amount of exercise.
Your puppy can and should run and play on grass and gallop around with other small dogs & puppies when she is out, but imo lead walks on hard surfaces should be kept to around 5 minutes for each month of her life - until the bones and joints are fully formed. Training her for short spells throughout the day will help to get her tired in a healthy way, and games in the garden or out on her walk when she is off lead are good too.
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Maggie111
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Re: Going out of my mind with 13 week puppy

Post by Maggie111 » 23 Jan 2013, 15:21

Hi, and welcome! I'm so glad you've found this forum because we've all had similar trials with our pups! Hopefully we can sort it out for you.

Just a few general things before I reply to each point though

1 - Have you ever had a dog before? Or is it just the Doodle-ness that you're struggling with? If you haven't I must insist you start reading up, Puppy Books are absolutely invaluable. Being prepared is half the battle sometimes! My favourite is http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Perfect-Pup ... 780&sr=8-1

And this one is very well respected, and FREE! (Available to buy in paperback if that's more convenient though) Before and After you Get Your Puppy by Ian Dunbar http://www.dogstardaily.com/free-downloads

2 - You've only had her for not even 2 weeks yet. Barney didn't settle down to normal for a good two weeks, only afterwards did I realise he was still unsettled with eating etc.

3 - what are you feeding her? I believe some foods lead to more manic behaviour than others. Beta is well known for bad behaviour. I'd leave it a few weeks before you change her over though, in the meantime I strongly recommend getting some packs of this to mix in with her meals. Barney loved it. http://www.petsathome.com/shop/naturedi ... 90gm-12954
1. She whines, cries and barks as if someone is trying to kill her when we leave her in the crate. We have tried playing games with the crate, sitting next to the crate while she settles - all of this fine, she is happy to be in there with company, but as soon as we leave the room, the howling begins. This goes on for 1/2 hour or so, and we get the same again if she wakes up during the night. - This isnt our biggest problem but would be nice to solve.
Your puppy will have lived with lots of people - a breeder who constantly fussed and fed, a Mummy who cleaned her and 4 or 5 litter mates to play, gnaw on, cuddle with, sing to etc. It really is HORRIBLE to be taken away from all that and put into a cage and be expected to be happy there up to 4 hours at a time.

Of course, you have to do it, but the key is to introduce her slowly, settle her in and acknowledge this trauma she is going through.

Does she mess in the crate at all?

For dogs to cope with their crate they must be comforting environments to them. And for some dogs, this will NEVER be. We taught Barney to tolerate his crate but he never loved it and has been very happy since it's been gone. Have you tried just leaving the crate door open and protecting your chewable house bits with some Pet Away spray? Maybe your dog might be more comforted having more of an area to roam around and somewhere to go to the toilet that isn't in her crate?
3. Her excitedness around our 1 year old daughter is really scaring the baby. She isnt agressive or nipping, but is jumping up and licking her face, chasing her through the house, I know its only playfulness, but the main reason we got the pup was to be a companion for our daughter, if they cant get on, the baby will win. I really need to train this out of her, but dont know where to start.
Unfortunately this bouncy excitable nature is definitely a labradoodle trait. They are lovely family dogs - aka very unlikely to have bad personalities or be aggressive etc. But this jumping and licking playful behaviour is very much in their nature! There are definitely ways to calm it down though but it will take a couple of months. If you have your dog shut away in a crate during the day, and let her out she IS, no matter what going to run around like a mad thing with excitement at being free. Knowing a bit more about you and the dog will help tailor this - but for Barney the most effective method I have to get him to naturally stop being crazy is a time out. He gets shut into the kitchen (glass door so he can see) and I turn my back on him. He will wait quietly at the door, or sit and as soon as I feel his tone has changed - normally 30 seconds or less, I let him back in. Without a doubt what works best is A LOT of praise and biscuits when he is being a good boy with all 4 paws on the ground.

And distractions, if he wants to burn off energy, pick up a really good toy and fling it away. If he takes it to your daughter just say no, pick up the toy, walk away from her into another room and start to play with her there.

Also, how much should i be walking the pup? I had been taking her for a 15 minute (1 mile) early morning walk and a 20 - 30 minute walk in the evening, I think I completely exhausted her as she started to sit down and refused to walk. After giving her a few days rest, only doing 5 mins max twice per day, she seems happier to walk, but I want to give her the correct amount of exercise.
That is a lot of walking for a little puppy. Has she been fully vaccinated? They recommend 5 minutes of lead walking at first... Gradually building up to 5 minutes for every month the dog is. But that's definitely something to build up to. You need to be precious of them at first as joints etc are growing and if they are on a lead they don't have the option of stopping when their bodies tell them to. Certainly, Barney had 2x5 minute walks for about 3 weeks, and then 10 minutes. If you think you've overdone it you can drop it back down again the next session - like you have done bravo!

My friend used to say about her dog "I know I shouldn't walk her for that long but she's always got so much energy to burn off! :roll: ".... Well they do, but they shouldn't do it on leaded walks. But it is perfectly ok for the dog to play in the garden for a little while as they can choose to rest when they need it. If you see her behaviour get a bit nippy she might be overtired and you can stop the playing - but normally, if she's off lead she can exercise for as long as she wants :)

And yes - agree with above posters puppy classes are invaluable!!! :D
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mr_cc
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Re: Going out of my mind with 13 week puppy

Post by mr_cc » 23 Jan 2013, 16:01

Hi All,

Thanks for your replies, She is our first dog, and I'm sure some of our concerns are just a shock to the system of how much work is involved.

I am hoping the whining problem will get better - I have watched her on camera in the kitchen during the daytime, in there she has her crate, door open then a portion on the kitchen blocked off with a baby gate to roam in. She spent 10 minutes trying to escape desterately whilst barking, then sat down in the crate and howled and whined for another 15 mins before relaxing, chewing a toy, sleeping, only getting up to drink and eat every now and again. She hasnt pooed or weed in her crate or the little fenced off area at all, even when we left her in there for 4 hours yesterday. We originally gave her a much bigger portion of the kitchen, but she seemed more distressed and did mess everywhere with a larger space, I would like to eventually give her the run of the house downstairs (definitely the whole kitchen) during the day, but I dread to think what she would do.

We did build up the length of our absences gradually from a few seconds up to hours (after 3 or 4 days of being with her constantly) but she isnt having it, time has almost run out and we are just going to have to leave her for the day and hope she gets used to it. Its not ideal, but knowing that she DOES calm down after a few minutes is a slight comfort - Its just heartbreaking to hear it every time

For the record, WHEN the puppy is calmer around the baby, they get on just fine, and figured out how to play fetch without any help from us. Its the excited times which are really frightening for her, and are worrying us - not because we think the pup will hurt her (she is actually pretty gentle) it is that we are having to actively separate them, restrict where the baby can roam in the house, and its taking away all our time to be together as a family. We want the pup to be involved but she cant be if she is this excited.

We are booked on a class with a puppy trainer tomorrow, so I shall see how that goes.

Pollydoodle
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Re: Going out of my mind with 13 week puppy

Post by Pollydoodle » 23 Jan 2013, 16:03

Pete,you certainly have your hands full.
In my view a young pup should not be left for so long on it's own. Re the pup chasing the 1yr old, I can only think at this stage of the game, you need to distract the pup away with a toy from chasing the child but at the same time the child must be taught not to run when the pup is around.Tough job on both accounts as both so young. Could it be this happens when the pup is tired- just like kids - pups have manic moments before crashing out to sleep.
The pup will be extra excited to have what it sees ( I imagine) as a play companion in your daughter. The pup is a blank canvas and it will need to learn slowly with care and patience what is acceptable. She is just on the critical stage of learning (some say memory imprint) and is key she has the right experiences and stimulation.Popular belief is once this period is over you cannot make up for it at a late stage. I think it is really important the pup feels secure and happy at the moment as this will set her up for life.

If you both work full time, can you not convice, whoever is looking after the 1 year old are they not able to look after the pup too?

good luck in the weeks ahead

Oops wasn't paying attention (inbetween work :oops: ) realise all the posts ah well won't edit

Leah
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Re: Going out of my mind with 13 week puppy

Post by Leah » 23 Jan 2013, 16:21

Congratulations on your new puppy, I'm sure she will grow to be your daughter's best friend given time.

A week and a half is not long really and she'll soon settle I'm sure. We got our Doodle when my youngest child was almost 2 and I also started caring for my sister's baby who was 6months at the time so it was essential for the dog to be gentle and respectful of the kids.

I didn't tolerate any jumping on them or biting their clothes. I said "NO" very firmly in a low, growly voice whenever he became a bit rough with a baby. If he continued I would put myslef between him and the child and repeat "NO". If he still kept on jumping on or biting the child I held him by the scruff of the neck, head down and said "NO" in a very firm voice.

He very quickly learned that babies were not to be jumped on or tugged at. I also got the almost 2yr old to help with the training, teaching him to say "sit" then give the pup a treat. All the children regularly helped to feed him, making him sit or lie down before putting his bowl down. Don't know if your daughter is old enough to do this but it does help the dog to see the child as being in control.

He is 3 now and really is the kids best friend - they all love him to bits and play lots with him, cuddle up together infront of the tv etc. He never jumps on children and is extremely gentle with all small people.

Not so sure about the full-time working thing - dogs are so sociable and love to have company and a half hour visit in the day isn't much. Could you consider sending her to dog day-care or to someone who would look after her in their home so she is not alone too much?

Lots of lead walking on hard surfaces can damage little puppy's joints but plenty of time off-lead at the park playing with other dogs and stopping when she wants a rest is fine. Doing a bit of training in the garden, "sit", "stay", "lie down" etc also tires them out.

Good luck,

Leah

Maggie111
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Re: Going out of my mind with 13 week puppy

Post by Maggie111 » 23 Jan 2013, 17:21

I'm glad you've posted again, it really does sound like you're doing a lot right and that what your dog needs is time. I remember when we'd had Barney there were occasions where I got so sleep deprived and so frustrated I felt hopeless. I loved having this forum so I could whinge! :lol: We all know how hard work these dogs are.

I've put hours and hours and hours into Barney for his first year. The joy is that unlike children - it will only take 2 years until they are mature, so all this hard work now will mean you get 14 years of a wonderful dog, perfect and tailored to you.

When I used to get so frustrated I was often reminded by people that Barney was only a puppy. I used to get angry and think - I know but he's so clever and he knows so much - WHY can't he understand this simple thing??? With time, so many of these frustrations just melted away.

I like the sound of your kitchen set up. Hearing a dog whine is torturous - but necessary. It is difficult to train out as sometimes you'll need to come into the room and can't afford to wait till she's quiet.... I think it's best if you, as Bid said, put her in her set up multiple times a day. Never leave her by fussing her etc, just tell her to go to her bed, give her a biscuit and walk out. I'd shut the kitchen door so you have somewhere out of sight to stand whilst you wait for 3 seconds of silence. Of course she will spend 5 minutes whining and howling but there will be a very quick quiet gap eventually so seize it. She will sense you are stood there and needs to try what she can to get you to come and see her. Do NOT let her think that a scream means you will come in. Only silence means you come back. When you walk back in just ignore her until she's calm.

This isn't a quick solution unfortunately, she will still whine and howl for a little while yet.
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JudeinPlymouth
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Re: Going out of my mind with 13 week puppy

Post by JudeinPlymouth » 23 Jan 2013, 17:41

from your first post to your second, it seems like things are a little better. However, I feel I really have to echo some of the previous comments. Please be careful not to over exercise your puppy, it sounds like a lot of walking to me.... and everyone will agree there is nothing harder to handle than an overtired pup! They often go a bit doo-lally :lol: :lol:

are you sure a puppy is for you? I know people's circumstances can change and they find they have to work full time where perhaps they didn't when they first got their dog. But to actually know you're both going to be out of the house for 35-40 hours each week seems terribly tough on your puppy.... they are very social animals and really do need lots of company if possible. Just my thoughts.
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kimberleyone
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Re: Going out of my mind with 13 week puppy

Post by kimberleyone » 23 Jan 2013, 18:09

Cant help but echo others thoughts re the time you are spending away from your puppy. I wanted a dog for years but had to wait until I could afford to work part time. I am now out for 4 hours three days a week and luckily get school holidays off too. I planned it all out so we got him the first weekend of the summer break so he was well sorted by the time I did have to leave him. Can he not go with your child to their carers? You did say that you had bought him for the childs companion? I really think that you have taken a lot on, and I am not too sure that if you leave him on his own for so long your problems will multiply the older he gets. Sorry :(

ClareV
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Re: Going out of my mind with 13 week puppy

Post by ClareV » 23 Jan 2013, 18:26

Hi there, I do empathise with you. I was very lucky with Charlie and took him up to my friend's house (she works from home) to be with her and her lovely red setter while I was at work until Charlie was five months old. I then dropped my hours to mornings only, and by that age he could be left alone at home for the mornings. Dora helped him socialise, and they also put him in a pen for periods of rest on his own so that he could acclimatise to being left.

Some doggy crèches are really very reasonably priced. They also might do a cheap rate if you commit to a couple of months. However your dog would also need to learn to be on their own for a period of time each day. Not much help there, was I!

Good luck.

Vincento
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Re: Going out of my mind with 13 week puppy

Post by Vincento » 23 Jan 2013, 18:52

Hello Mr cc.... the best suggestions have already been said to help you and your puppy through this situation ...so my only thought to you is this ...please please please don't give up on your puppy, things will get better and believe me it will but do remember all those poor dogs out there in dogs home all over this country just looking for a home through no fault of their own except someone gave up on them :(

We have had so many people post on this forum looking for a home for their doodle because they have given up on them because he's bouncy, he doesn't get on with their cat or their child is scared of it their Mother In law is moving in etc etc etc....the excuses are endless :(

You have made the decision to have a doodle puppy hopefully putting lots of thought about how you will/would adjust to it being a member of your family for the rest of it's life (a big commitment) so please don't give up on her ........
Vince doodle ...you will always find him in the kitchen at parties ......

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