Well I gave in :(

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Harvey's Mum
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Well I gave in :(

Post by Harvey's Mum » 02 Feb 2014, 09:16

After trying Harvey out in the crate last night I gave in after nearly an hour's worth of barking. I know that lots of people said that I should sit it out and it would resolve itself over a few days, but we live in a semi detached house and the people next door have a young baby.

I feel like a total failure.

I slept on the sofa and managed to get Harvey to stay in his bed in the same room and he was fine. He settled down more or less straight away. He tried to get up twice during the night but both times I said no and pointed to his bed and he went straight back and settled down.

Obviously this isn't a long term solution. I'm wondering whether I should get a camp bed and put him in his crate in the dining room tonight and sleep in there and gradually withdraw myself over the next couple of weeks. Or is this giving in to him?

I know what the books say and what the official line of advice is, but I am not prepared to make our neighbours put up with that. It was upsetting their dog too. :(



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Re: Well I gave in :(

Post by suebedo » 02 Feb 2014, 09:34

It's early days, the books are helpful for ideas but not a bible.

If you're like me, I read all the books when I had my first baby and then found my own way when I realised I was beating myself up for not getting it "right". When the second baby came along, I was much more relaxed and didn't read a thing. I've learnt from that painful experience and now treat the dogs in the same "suck it and see" way.

Our two started in a crate before allowing them the freedom of the downstairs - Florence pee'd most mornings as we got downstairs. We let them upstairs as a treat and the peeing stopped. It seems to me she didn't like being unable to get to us when she knew where we were.

Other people have tried the crate or pen in their bedroom with good results.

You will find what works for you and then you'll all get a good night's sleep!! Don't forget that puppies can sense your tension and react to it. Try and keep calm, it will get better xx

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Re: Well I gave in :(

Post by kellygrace » 02 Feb 2014, 09:35

Not all the books say leave your puppy to bark / cry.

It's like having a baby - some think it's ok to leave a baby to cry, some would never do it. You will never please everyone so do what you think is right :)

We had the crate in our room for a week so she was getting used to the crate but without the separation anxiety which worked well for us. Good luck!

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Re: Well I gave in :(

Post by swardie » 02 Feb 2014, 09:39

Dexter's crate is in our bedroom, and he settles well now. I would try it, and see how it goes, Linda - good luck.

Doodle Dee
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Re: Well I gave in :(

Post by Doodle Dee » 02 Feb 2014, 09:44

me too - I only tried 4 hours and came down to a crate full of poo wee and a pup covered with it - the newspaper was shredded so on and so forth.

She slept outside my bedroom - she was fine

Am I sorry - have been - she became a chewer - bannister, wires, skirting board, so on and so forth. I would have liked to be able to crate her but I didn't but she is fine now - but saying that she slept all night!!! (they chewing was not just when she was alone she managed when I was in the house.

I just thought I would give you another side of the story. I have always had dogs never crated them

Good luck it is early days and as others have said they are like babies - not all the rule books fit but consistency works all the time.
Lulu & Dx


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Re: Well I gave in :(

Post by kenny&stella » 02 Feb 2014, 10:32

we had the same problem , semi detached house with howling pup , the wife was at her wits end with neighbour worry , hence we caved in , dog came upstairs to our room in a bedside play pen , no problems anymore , we now don't use the pen as hes a bit big for it , he sleeps on the floor at the bedside but shuffles about sometimes during the night , he just wants to hear you breathing then hes happy .

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Re: Well I gave in :(

Post by Roodlepippin » 02 Feb 2014, 10:39

Personally I'm really glad Woody got used to being confined in his "crate" (actually part of the under-stairs cupboard with front removed and a gate put across). But for the first few nights we had a borrowed crate in our bedroom so that he was confined but wasn't alone.

It did work - we didn't get much sleep but he did :lol: - but after the third night (and having had a conversation with his breeder who laughed at how ridiculous we were being) we put him in his permanent bed / den and shut the door. He made a bit of a fuss for about 15-20 minutes and then calmed down and has been fine ever since.

The problem with the first few nights is that everyone tells you to 'start as you mean to go on' but the poor pup has got so many new things to cope with that it's a bit of an overload. They're alone for the first time, missing mum and siblings, in a strange place and being fussed over by loads of strange people etc.

So, personally, I think a couple of nights with some company while they get used to the new environment is fine, but after that a bit of tough love is called for! By all means have him in your bedroom tonight and possibly tomorrow, but after that he should be sleeping where you expect him to stay long-term.

You absolutely do not want to be pandering to any nonsense beyond his initial few days because it will very quickly turn into a tough habit to break. If you know that he's fed, tired, has had a wee and a poo, it's fairly safe to ignore any whinging. Of my dog-owning friends, the only ones who have had real problems with ongoing broken nights / unacceptable behaviour have been those who couldn't quite bring themselves to do the tough love bit at the beginning.

That said, there have been a couple of times that Woody's made a very uncharacteristic fuss in the middle of the night, and I've gone downstairs fuming, only to find he'd been sick or been desperate to go outside, so you have to use your common sense a bit!

There's loads of good advice on here about how to get pups used to crates / dens etc. I wasn't very keen on a crate (which is just a nicer name for a cage!) and we certainly didn't use one for the standard poodle we had when I was growing up. But it's been a godsend - Woody was 'crated' for the first few months while I was out, and for short periods during the day, so it wasn't just overnight. It meant that the only thing he has destroyed was a DVD and the edge of a rug, and both of those were in full view of my children (they didn't notice! :roll: ).

And having somewhere that is recognisably "his" where you can also put him to calm down when he gets over excited is incredibly useful. The only times Woody turned into a devil-pup (biting, snapping, racing around, bouncing off the walls) were when I hadn't noticed that he was getting very overtired. Being able to shut him away for his own good was very useful - whenever I did that he'd be completely flaked out within minutes of being locked away and the "nice" Woody returned when he'd had a sleep. I did also put him in there - against all advice - when he was particularly naughty, but it hasn't put him off using it as his den.

Sorry for long post but i really remember the first few weeks - and not particularly fondly!! :lol: Good luck and try to enjoy him in between all the hassles!

Ally doodle
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Re: Well I gave in :(

Post by Ally doodle » 02 Feb 2014, 11:07

After a few sleepless nights be brought ally's crate into our bedroom and she settled straight away and has slept there ever since so I say do what suits you and your family :D

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Re: Well I gave in :(

Post by Benben » 02 Feb 2014, 11:30

I was very lucky: I brought Ursa back with a blanket the litter/mum had been lying on, and I had her here by midday. That meant that she had plenty of time in and out of the crate (which was where her blanket was, mixed up with other soft blankets) before she was put to bed that night. I also had enough space in the crate to have a round dog bed at one end and a training pad at the other, so she had a place to "go" in the night. By night-time the crate had become a safe place she could retreat to when it all got a little overwhelming, so shutting the cage at bedtime felt like making her safe rather than locking her up.

I absolutely recognise Roodlepippin's post about having somewhere you can put your youngster for time outs. It took me a little while to recognise a tantrum for what it was - a very overtired puppy who needed a little peace in a familiar place away from stimulation for a while. Each time she got into a rage or was bouncing off the walls I popped her in there only to see her flop down and go straight to sleep.

It's easy to see a crate as a place of confinement, because that's what it looks like to us. As far as Ursa's concerned, it's her den where she's safest and certainly not a prison. If Harvey is now comfortable in his bed, could you try putting it all in the crate, with the door open? That way the bed will all be familiar, and he'll be free to come and go. At night I'd try covering it with a blanket 10-15 minutes before you leave the room, so he falls asleep while you're still there - again that's worked for Ursa, who otherwise did whinge a bit if plonked in there and left immediately!
Ursa: born 28.10.13


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Re: Well I gave in :(

Post by sallysutton » 02 Feb 2014, 15:03

Some dogs do not take to being crated. I tried a crate with Stanley - he hated it and got almost hysterical in it. I persevered for 2 weeks, getting up to him 3 times a night, then hearing him crying and scratching for up to 2 hours before he settled. I took to sleeping on the sofa when he woke for the third time around 5am, and he settled in a bed next to me on the floor with no problem. I just gently said 'in your bed' each time he got out. When my back could stand it no longer, I let him sleep next to my bed - he slept all night. One evening he was asleep in his other bed at the bottom of the stairs when we went to bed, so I left him there and closed the stair gate at the bottom. He has slept there ever since, no problems, apart from occasionally when he's woken me in the night when he's had an upset tummy. He soon learnt the routine. I was pleased because I didn't really want him in our bedroom, I'm a very light sleeper, so the slightest noise wakes me. What I'm trying to say is, if you let him sleep in your bedroom with you at this stage, it doesn't mean he will be there forever. Do what you think is best, no-one is there in the middle of the night to give you advice. He's your dog, follow your instincts and do what you want. I must add though, that Stanley isn't a chewer (apart from my crocs when he was teething!), so it's not been a problem for us leaving him downstairs on his own.

Good luck!

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Stanley miniature doodle

Harvey's Mum
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Re: Well I gave in :(

Post by Harvey's Mum » 02 Feb 2014, 15:12

Thanks all for the really helpful replies. I'm feeling a bit more positive than I was first thing and can see all of the things that went right rather than the one thing that didn't. He did settle when I let him come in the room with me and he was in his own bed, not mine. He also went back to bed as soon as I told him to on the couple of occasions when he tried to get up which I don't suppose is back going for a ten week old on his first night away from his mum. In one day he has learnt to sit and go to bed on command so it looks like he will be trainable.

I've covered his crate for tonight (which I didn't last night) and I am buying an air bed to sleep in the same room (we've cleared our dining room to be his space). I will then gradually move the air bed nearer to the door each night and see if that works.

If it really has to be the case I suppose I don't mind him sleeping in a crate in my bedroom but I want to avoid it if possible in case it leads to other separation anxiety problems.

I think I might have been a little tired when I posted this morning. I'm never good on 5 hours sleep!


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Re: Well I gave in :(

Post by Bid » 02 Feb 2014, 15:31

One thing in your post caught my eye, and that was him getting up a couple of times and being told to go back to bed. With a new puppy you basically have two choices about them waking up at night. You either give them space to toilet, or you get up and let them out - it is too much to expect them to go all night without a chance to wee/poo. Which option you go for is up to you - there's no right or wrong choice, but don't expect a young pup to last all night - they physically can't. :D
Beauty without vanity, strength without insolence, courage without ferocity, and all the virtues of man without his vices - Byron

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Re: Well I gave in :(

Post by Samdunn » 02 Feb 2014, 16:23

Read your post but not read other replays yet. Just want to give you our story. We were told by vet, trainer and breed to put in crate, lock crate, leave all night. We thought this was a but extreme so made a pen and long story short over the next fortnight we put him in the open crate in pen and left him till morning, This was an utter disaster!. Barking all night long from about 1am, was climbing out the various different sizes of pens we used, pooing and peeing all over floor as wide awake, out of crate and no way back to crate as he'd climbed out pen (we didn't realise this till morning as we were trying to ignore him !) so basically none of us were getting any sleep. Then we did what was suggested at start, put in shut crate ( which he was always happy to do, problem was when he was waking). and when he woke barking, took him out for toilet and things been much better. Up till 12 weeks he still needed a poo at night and was distressed being left to do it in house so as long as we get up to take him out when he wakes he's been fine. He's not so good at going back in crate after toilet so ( been told not to do this but it works for us and we get more sleep!) when he gets up (around 5 or 6) he goes out then he sleeps in a dog bed in living room while one of us snoozes on sofa. He's 14 weeks now and we're nearly getting to 7 before he wakes so it's moving in right direction. I'm with you on the barking, I could stand a night of it, but I could nt listen to it all night every night for days. Good luck x

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Re: Well I gave in :(

Post by poppygreen » 02 Feb 2014, 17:11

My OH or me have always slept with the dogs during any upset or stressful times, new puppy, season, spey, new dog, post op, and we always got over it and back to bed within days. Why stress out? bed down on the sofa until everything settles down, there's nothing worse than laying awake listening to pathetic howling and whimpering....

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Re: Well I gave in :(

Post by oakesr » 02 Feb 2014, 17:25

Just want to say, as awful and tiring as this feels now, in a few months it will be a distant memory. Just the same as all kids learn to walk or be potty trained, I bet there is no one here who has an adult dog who barks or cries all night - it's just a temporary thing as he's a tiny baby :D.

Do what feels best for you, if you are happy with him in your bedroom, then do it. I'll admit we were very lucky with Roma as she only cried on first night. We did not get up in the night to her and she had a puppy pad at one end of the crate. It wasn't long before the pad was dry every night and could be taken away.

She slept in an open bed in the hall, without any issues from about 5 months.

It really is about perseverance in the early days and you may not want to hear it again but definitely start as you mean to go on :)
Rachel & Roma

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