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 Post subject: Re: Aggression in 14 week old
PostPosted: 12 Feb 2016, 00:54 
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Joined: 05 Jan 2016, 19:54
Posts: 11
Thanks all.

We'll press on. But just to be clear on one thing: puppy biting and mouthing are child's play compared to the aggressive anger with which he bites. All four of us have bloody wounds to show for it. We're experienced with dogs and have not known this nastiness.


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 Post subject: Re: Aggression in 14 week old
PostPosted: 12 Feb 2016, 01:02 
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Joined: 22 Dec 2012, 15:40
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We hear you. Lots of us thought the same about our pups. X

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 Post subject: Re: Aggression in 14 week old
PostPosted: 12 Feb 2016, 02:00 
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Joined: 10 Sep 2010, 18:36
Posts: 2105
44 Whitehall, have been wondering most days how things are progressing since your initial post...
It is hard to know by reading here but what you describe sounds like resource guarding . Again pup needs to learn he does not need to this. I don't think anyone truly knows why some do ,others don't .
I would do away with food based toys til resolved. Set the pup up to succeed. Is this issue only around food?
I am sure u r exasperated by this 'monster' you find in your home and also rather upset. I would be. I imagine emotions etc are high.
I really encourage you to look for a positive based behaviorist, one that says you must pin the pup down etc is NOT what you want. You want the pup to learn it is ok for people to approach. You don't want him feeling he needs to intensify his position so any sort of rough man handling will imho make things worse. I imagine foodtime etc has become a battleground in the home. Take a deep breath, step back and try approach with a positive relaxed demeanour (not meant to sound condescending )
You need to win his confidence ie human approach = good wonderful = i may get something even better than kibble or whatever he has.

It won't be a quick fix BUT you will be able to see incremental improvement as he gains trust in you. At times you can't face the 'training' , actually I like to think of it as coaching,on those feeds give him his food and walk away. Pls keep the little ones away.
Hope some of that waffle rings true for you.

You may wish to read this, there is another by ian dunbar and excellent one on p. McConnell site but can't find it at the mo.
https://positively.com/dog-behavior/agg ... -guarding/


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 Post subject: Re: Aggression in 14 week old
PostPosted: 12 Feb 2016, 19:01 
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Joined: 22 Aug 2013, 20:05
Posts: 472
I too have been thinking about you and your pup. Today, while I was talking to my Mum, on the phone,I told her about your situation. She is 89 and has had dogs all her life, Spaniels, Cairns and lots of different rescue dogs. When I was growing up we were always told to leave the pups alone to eat and rest,she always said the pup came first!( I know, quite extreme, but we did as we were told in the 60s! :lol: )
Today when we spoke she wondered if you had tried presenting the pup with an empty bowl? When you do this the pup will look to you for food. At this point you throw a little handful in. He will look to you again, so you will give some more etc. She says the idea is for him to think that when you go near the bowl it is a good thing.Might help? Anny


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 Post subject: Re: Aggression in 14 week old
PostPosted: 12 Feb 2016, 19:12 
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Joined: 05 Jan 2016, 19:54
Posts: 11
I'm so comforted by the advice I'm getting here. Thank you all. Yes we are exasperated and emotional, but we are hopeful that he'll be lovely all the time and not just most of it! We'll get there...

I'll stop by with an update soon.


Last edited by 44Whitehall on 12 Feb 2016, 19:34, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Aggression in 14 week old
PostPosted: 12 Feb 2016, 19:31 
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Joined: 15 May 2013, 20:35
Posts: 933
I feel for you i had a yorkie who was nasty over food and toys ,and when dexter was young any dog who came by hes treats or food he was nasty.I still feel a little nervous when i have my sisters dog ,i make them both sit and give them food away from each other,but as he got older and more relaxed he is ten times better.He as always let us by hes food and can take away . my 3 year old grand daughter gives dexter hes food and treats she makes him sit and respects her .I do hope you can sort it out.

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 Post subject: Re: Aggression in 14 week old
PostPosted: 12 Feb 2016, 20:57 
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Joined: 03 Nov 2006, 20:30
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Location: South Dorset
I'm sorry this is going to sound harsh, but it is hard to think that anyone who talks about sending a 14 week old puppy on a one way trip to the vets, or thinks about using a electric shock collar on them really has the puppy's best interests at heart. If you seriously believe that at that age your puppy is showing aggressive anger (and it is extremely unusual - drawing blood is not unusual), then you should consult an experienced behaviourist quickly or return the pup to the breeder. The APBC website is the best place to look for a properly qualified behaviourist - they will require a veterinary referral, so book a return trip to the vet first. The vet will check that there is no medical reason for the aggression, and then refer you.

http://www.apbc.org.uk/help/regions

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 Post subject: Re: Aggression in 14 week old
PostPosted: 12 Feb 2016, 21:10 
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Joined: 09 May 2013, 00:38
Posts: 3304
Location: N. E. Derbyshire
I like the sound of your Mum's idea, Anny... it's like hand-feeding, but with your hands out of the way!

I know it's not quite the same as your problem, 44Whitehall, but I looked a real sight in the early days with our Ianto - little razor holes in my t-shirts, jeans, socks, hands, ankles and arms... (not to mention a few random bruises on my btm... :oops: ) My little monster would launch at me, and if I turned my back - as advised - he'd bite my derriere! :evil:

He used to go mad in the evenings, running around and biting everything and everyone within reach. I can well remember sitting with my feet up on the kitchen counter as he rampaged around the floor, dragging my sweeping brush and murdering it.... :shock: I even asked his breeder if it was acceptable to wear wellies indoors... :? As it was, I lived in deeply unfashionable hi-top trainers (albeit with shredded laces...) It wasn't until I joined this forum that I came to realise he was over-tired and needed to be given Time Outs. With our latest pup, I made sure he had lots of nap-times built into his schedule.

Sometimes a problem gets you so worried and worked up, it is difficult to see what you need to do - what others have advised is so true; step back, take a deep breath and start again. Although his behaviour seems like aggression to you, it isn't... and handled correctly, you'll be able to look back on your experience and advise others who come after with the same problem. By which time, yours will have moved on to some other behaviour which has you tearing your hair out! :lol: (...Or is that just mine?? :wink: )

Anne, Ianto & Wyre x


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 Post subject: Re: Aggression in 14 week old
PostPosted: 12 Feb 2016, 22:16 
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Joined: 05 Jan 2016, 19:54
Posts: 11
Fair cop: I have thought of zapping him with an electric collar, and in a sense I make no apology for it. There are lots of resources online which suggest it is an effective dog training tool, and in exasperation I have sought advice here - precisely because I have the puppy's interests in mind.

Unfair cop: my fear of the one way visit to the vet stems from the legal system in England which imposes a death penalty on a dog which bites and draws blood. Again suggestive of the puppy's interests being prioritized.

Your opinion and advice is valuable and valued. I need the help and support of this group and am very grateful for it. I'll be googling your suggestions this evening.

Thanks, as ever.


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 Post subject: Re: Aggression in 14 week old
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2016, 09:14 
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Joined: 05 Jan 2016, 19:54
Posts: 11
I've not been on here for a while, largely due to good progress with your suggested approaches. Unfortunately, though, recent reversion to old ways and following my wife being bitten we have taken the difficult decision to rehome the dog. With our trust at a low point, and with young children in the home, there's no real option.

He'd be a lovely dog in the right hands and he deserves better than we can give him. So regretfully my job for the long weekend is to start the search for the right home for him. And at risk of infringing forum rules, if anyone has any suggestions they'll be welcome.

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Aggression in 14 week old
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2016, 17:34 
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Joined: 10 Sep 2010, 18:36
Posts: 2105
Hi, nearly reached out to you two days ago. Sorry to read the predicament and must been hard decision to have reached. With kids about you have consider the situation carefully together eith whst you can manage.
Do check out the doodletrust.com they rehome. Without giving too finer detail where about are you in the country to give idea.


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 Post subject: Re: Aggression in 14 week old
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2016, 18:17 
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Joined: 05 Jan 2016, 19:54
Posts: 11
Thanks. Yes, it's a real shame and the children are desperately sad.

We're nearby Heathrow airport.


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 Post subject: Re: Aggression in 14 week old
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2016, 20:30 
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Joined: 30 Jul 2008, 13:51
Posts: 746
Location: Manchester
I would recommend you speak to Doodle Trust.

They will take in your puppy, assess, train and rehome to the right environment. No kennels involved, all based in a fosterers home.
I have previously been a fosterer, and now assist in other areas.

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 Post subject: Re: Aggression in 14 week old
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2016, 20:36 
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Joined: 05 Jan 2016, 19:54
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Thanks. I'll have a look.


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 Post subject: Re: Aggression in 14 week old
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2016, 23:27 
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Joined: 09 May 2013, 00:38
Posts: 3304
Location: N. E. Derbyshire
I, too, would advocate contacting the Doodle Trust. They are a voluntary organisation though, and have been taking in more doodles, due to their increased popularity in recent years. I know that you must feel you are in a desperate situation, but if you can, please hold out for their help...

Doodles are taken into foster homes, where they are assessed and their behaviour can be monitored and improved. Loving and caring homes are found for them - I have been a member of their Facebook page for quite a while now, and love seeing the doods who have been re-homed with their members blossoming and becoming well-loved members of their new family. There are two re-homed doods in our Doodle Meet group, and I can assure you that they have excellent, loving homes now.

I'm so sorry that things haven't worked out for your dood and your family - but it takes courage to admit you are having problems; that things aren't working out, and to make sure that your pup finds an appropriate new home. My heart breaks for all the pups that I see on Preloved and Gumtree, where their former owners have no idea what their new circumstances will be...

Perhaps when your children are older, you will be able to think about having a dog - and maybe even adopt one who needs a new home.

Anne, Ianto & Wyre x


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