Neutering a dog so young? Advice please...

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Thompson
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Joined: 23 Sep 2015, 10:14

Neutering a dog so young? Advice please...

Post by Thompson » 23 Sep 2015, 11:13

Hi there,
My husband and I have been looking for some time for a miniature labradoodle to join our loving family. We fell in love with a beautiful red Australian labradoodle that we have seen online. She is expensive but the breeders have great feedback (I have read lots of reviews!) and we felt happy to think we had finally found her!! My only dilemma at this moment and the only thing that has stopped me going ahead is that they will not let her go without being neutered?! She will be around 10 weeks (they said 2kilos) before they do this but I have spoken to two vets who have advised (very strongly) against this and the absolute earliest they would ever perform this operation is 6 months possibly longer. Their concerns are that she is not only too little for her organs to endure the anaesthetic but also future health issues it may bring as her hormones will not have developed fully by this point. I contacted the breeder and was met with a cold response basically insinuating that I would be breading her (I have no intention to do this whatsoever) I was happy to sign anything but alas it seems they are adamant the neutering is the only way. So disappointed, just wondered what other peoples views were on this? If anyone has a dog that was neutered this young? Many thanks :(

Research
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Joined: 14 Feb 2015, 13:29

Re: Neutering a dog so young? Advice please...

Post by Research » 23 Sep 2015, 11:23

That's a shame, we were faced with the same dilemma, but our breeder was happy for us to have her done later, about 6 months we thought, as long as we would sign an agreement stating we would have her done ourselves. My vet said the same as yours, that they need the hormones for development. His advice was to wait until she was at least 6 months.

Thompson
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Re: Neutering a dog so young? Advice please...

Post by Thompson » 23 Sep 2015, 11:42

I wish I had been able to negotiate this too :cry: the vet suggested a contract (they sometime see them) and that they would sign off / send them confirmation once neutering had been done if it helped but they were adamant :(

Mo G
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Joined: 16 Jul 2015, 11:12

Re: Neutering a dog so young? Advice please...

Post by Mo G » 23 Sep 2015, 13:15

Hello

I completely agree! It must be akin to giving a hysterectomy to a 10y old girl. I also have turned down otherwise excellent litters because of it and I not sure why the practice id condoned. I would be interested to hear what the "experts" say.

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Bid
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Re: Neutering a dog so young? Advice please...

Post by Bid » 23 Sep 2015, 17:02

I know there are people happy to have this done, but in my opinion it is a practise done to protect the breeders income and not in the pups best interests. I am sure there is research available to say that it does no harm, and I know there is research available that shows it to be harmful. My feelings are that dogs need their hormones intact to develop physically and mentally, which is why my girls were spayed after their first season - neither of them before they were 16 months old, and my boy was neutered when he was 2 years old. They have grown into mature trainable laid back dogs that I can take anywhere. You see so many dogs that retain puppy-like habits and behaviours and I think early spaying/neutering contributes to that.
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KatyM
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Re: Neutering a dog so young? Advice please...

Post by KatyM » 23 Sep 2015, 17:05

I am currently doing research into getting a puppy and was shocked to find that most breeders neuter/spay so young. It is hard not to surmise that they are just protecting their profits and not doing what is in the best interests of the puppy. If you are prepared to go to all that effort to prove neutering at 6 months i feel it is very unreasonable of the breeder not to allow it.
Have you given up on that breeder? I have found a breeder who breeds double doodles, labradoodles and golendoodles and she does not neuter. http://www.redrosepuppies.co.uk It might be worth checking out.

I hope your search is successful.

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Bid
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Re: Neutering a dog so young? Advice please...

Post by Bid » 23 Sep 2015, 18:21

It's not most doodle breeders though, it is just Aussie doodle breeders. They have an association that requires it .... http://www.ukaustralianlabradoodleclub. ... thics.html. I suppose the thing to do it look for an Aussie breeder that isn't in that association
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Liz!!
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Re: Neutering a dog so young? Advice please...

Post by Liz!! » 24 Sep 2015, 17:04

Well, there are arguments for and against. It is protective of certain cancers - and far from being unsafe, is a safer op than at 6 months as it is so quick. Lola doesn't even have a scar. I know a lot of people with Aussies and they all are fine - plus, I've never seen a litter (and i look a lot online, it's like a compulsion!) minus a pup after the op.
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Pollydoodle
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Re: Neutering a dog so young? Advice please...

Post by Pollydoodle » 24 Sep 2015, 22:59

My understanding is early spay in Aussie doodles is for one reason only - income protection.

Liz!!
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Re: Neutering a dog so young? Advice please...

Post by Liz!! » 25 Sep 2015, 09:48

Not quite - it's also so complete control can be kept over breeding, so they don't become interbred like other breeds.

From now on, that is.

There aren't that many over here and there are always far fewer males than females, they are used over and over by breeders.

So making sure no dogs are bred with relatives is a specialist business. Which i'd have to agree with.

It does make me uneasy, and I swing between opinion.
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linny
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Re: Neutering a dog so young? Advice please...

Post by linny » 28 Sep 2015, 15:32

I have always been apposed to ESN. I prefer my dogs to mature both physically and mentally before spay or neuter.
Beverley Manners (Aussie Doodle breeder of notoriety at Rutland Manor) was into ESN to protect her financial interest she also debarked her dogs. :(
There are breeders of Aussie doods who do not demand ESN.
I would search for one if I particularly wanted an Aussie.

thepadster
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Re: Neutering a dog so young? Advice please...

Post by thepadster » 28 Sep 2015, 18:24

linny wrote: Beverley Manners (Aussie Doodle breeder of notoriety at Rutland Manor) was into ESN to protect her financial interest she also debarked her dogs. :(
.
I am astounded that anyone thinks debarking a dog is a good idea. :evil:
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Rob-T
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Re: Neutering a dog so young? Advice please...

Post by Rob-T » 28 Sep 2015, 23:03

There are arguments for and against early spaying/ neutering. I can see both sides of the debate and although some vets are against the procedure it needs to be carried out by a vet so some at least must be happy enough to perform the surgery

Martina daly
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Re: Neutering a dog so young? Advice please...

Post by Martina daly » 29 Sep 2015, 05:55

Ozzy is an Aussie doodle and was vasectomised females undergo tubal ligature so there is an alternative to full spay/ neuter at least this way the dogs retain there hormones

annabell22
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Re: Neutering a dog so young? Advice please...

Post by annabell22 » 29 Sep 2015, 21:51

We have a 50% aussie male who was ESP when we got him. Whilst I do agree that 90% of the reason is because the breeders want to keep their business and their income, I do also believe they are protecting the breed. This way only the breeders who have the appropriate dogs for breeding with temperament, size, shedding etc are used, and they can keep track of the dogs and avoid inbreeding. This means that this breed (not talking about the condition of the breeders and the pups) is well cared for and they arent over produced and used as a way for amateuers to make money on puppies whilst they are popular.

From a more practical point of view, I can vouch that the dogs have indeed been well bred from good stock. (Again, I am aware the aussies didnt have an ideal start up Re Rutland Manor etc) Our pup has a brilliant temperament, is easy to train, and is the most placid calm dog I, or any of my friends or people I speak to, have ever come across and he is totally non shedding (not hypoallergenic as many doodle breeders say). I believe that this is because the breed is so protected and there are no random irresponsible matings. He has had no adverse effects from this early neuter and his recovery was a matter of days and a simple procedure that the vet has carried out many times.

To be totally honest once I didnt even think too much about ESP at the time, but I am so glad I was not put off by this as Monty is a joy to own. I suppose if I had a different breed I would not have had the procedure done so early, but it was taken out of my hands. Its up to you to decide if this is a reason to not go through with the purchase of this breed. Regardless of whether you think the cost of this dog is worth it, the cost of importing an aussie doddle is in the tens of thousands and so money does need to be made up on the sales.

Good luck with finding your pup.

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